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Strong anxiety at the place of the first attack PanicEnd Message Board
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93 posts Mikey 93 posts
Mikey
I just realized that even if I don't really have attacks anymore, I have strong anxiety, and near-panic feelings when I'm in the same room I had my first - anxiety/DP-inducing - panic attack.

I've read a LOT of times that after the first panic attack, sufferers have a fear of the next attack. Is it possible that this fear is unconscious? I mean, can you fear of the next possible attack WITHOUT knowing it?

is it possible that all the phobias, disturbing thoughts, death anxiety, etc. sufferers have during anxiety are NOTHING MORE than an unconscious fear of the next panic attack?

is it possible?
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bigmose 66 posts
bigmose
hey mikey, I can relate to how your feeling. My story is that about around the time I turned 30, I had my first panic attack...I never really had a clue what one was before it happened, but the world got really weird for me and it lasted for probably (and I'm not exaggerating) half a day.  I felt these monster waves of fear and feelings of I am completely going crazy. I wasn't able to concentrate, I bet solving simple addition or subtraction problems would have been impossible (I'm not good at math anyway but thats besides the point..lol).

A couple years following that initial panic attack were really rough, because I felt like that thing could come get me at anytime, I didn't feel safe anywhere.  But now its been about 5 years since that attack, and I can honestly say I'm not scared of panic anymore, but I do have this general anxiety that keeps nipping away at me, and I do get the irrational thoughts and some unreality feelings.  So at this point I am just trying to accept those feelings, and trying not to react to them. 

I don't let those feelings deter me from living my life either, I was playing golf with friends yesterday and I was feeling it, and I was self-checking the whole time (so annoying), I felt like instead of enjoying it, I was just trying to get through it, and when asked to go hang out and drink beers afterward, I desperately wanted to make up an excuse so I could go home (and jump on this website...lol) but I didn't, I said sure lets go and I told my crappy feelings that they can come along if they wanted.  I ended up having a great time with little twinges of anxiety.  So I figured I don't like this anxiety stuff, but I think life can still be great even with these feelings.  I'm going to set goals and do the things I want to do and if anxiety wants to be there -- so be it.  Anxiety is harmless and if it wants to prove otherwise I invite it to try. Do your worst.
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Mikey 93 posts
Mikey
bigmose wrote:
hey mikey, I can relate to how your feeling. My story is that about around the time I turned 30, I had my first panic attack...I never really had a clue what one was before it happened, but the world got really weird for me and it lasted for probably (and I'm not exaggerating) half a day.  I felt these monster waves of fear and feelings of I am completely going crazy. I wasn't able to concentrate, I bet solving simple addition or subtraction problems would have been impossible (I'm not good at math anyway but thats besides the point..lol).

A couple years following that initial panic attack were really rough, because I felt like that thing could come get me at anytime, I didn't feel safe anywhere.  But now its been about 5 years since that attack, and I can honestly say I'm not scared of panic anymore, but I do have this general anxiety that keeps nipping away at me, and I do get the irrational thoughts and some unreality feelings.  So at this point I am just trying to accept those feelings, and trying not to react to them. 

I don't let those feelings deter me from living my life either, I was playing golf with friends yesterday and I was feeling it, and I was self-checking the whole time (so annoying), I felt like instead of enjoying it, I was just trying to get through it, and when asked to go hang out and drink beers afterward, I desperately wanted to make up an excuse so I could go home (and jump on this website...lol) but I didn't, I said sure lets go and I told my crappy feelings that they can come along if they wanted.  I ended up having a great time with little twinges of anxiety.  So I figured I don't like this anxiety stuff, but I think life can still be great even with these feelings.  I'm going to set goals and do the things I want to do and if anxiety wants to be there -- so be it.  Anxiety is harmless and if it wants to prove otherwise I invite it to try. Do your worst.

to be honest, I really feel like there's no more "acceptance" or "facing the fear" beyond what I've already done. 

it's been 1,5 years. I already faced the attack after reading Jeff's site a week after my first attack. I let it do it's worst.

but right now, I'm here, currently drinking caffeine to make an attack coming so I can let it "kill me", but it doesn't come. but the basic anxiety/DP/panic feeling is lurking there, making my life 10 times harder.

I'm losing hope about this face-the-fear method. I literally did everything, from intentionally getting drunk just to create a bad hangover, drinking caffeine, I've fought while being anxious, I travelled by airplane, even stepped on stage, etc. but no dramatic change came.

I'm still here after 1,5 years, DPd, can't get my perspective back on my life. nothing pops into my head but fears. Fears about financial stuff, family, career, life, death, girls, people, cars, etc... and it happened literally overnight.

I'm feeling like I'm not fully awake.

starting to think that there's nothing wrong with me I'm just this weak, this fearful, lost like this.

thanks for your response sorry if I sound like a whiny bitch.
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Mikey 93 posts
Mikey
anyway, Jeff gives incredible advices here, but right now I can't believe that facing the fear is the whole story. you can stop having attacks by doing that, but it doesn't resolve the anxiety.
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bigmose 66 posts
bigmose
haha...your not a whiny bitch. you are just feeling awful right now, and you want to get better. This is the place to voice your concerns.

I feel like we have the same problem. I don't fear the panic but I hate this general anxiety that doesn't seem to go.  When I'm feeling anxiety, I ask it to do its worst, but i feel thats all it wants to do, like it doesn't want to do its worst, or maybe its worst is just this anxiety feeling all day without the panic. And then I think this gives way to depressive thoughts, and i'm not normally a depressing kind of guy. But yeah there is a sense of hopelessness and what is the point to it all. I to worry about all that crap, will I ever find a career, will my wife leave me because of this, death, etc....  

I think right now we are just very sensitized, and we are susceptible to suggestions no matter if they are irrational or not. But what i've been told is that in order for this general anxiety to dissipate, we must remain patient and just accept them being there for now, and we need to stop getting on the "what if" train. We worry worry worry all the time, like if we were to stop worrying then all the things we worry about would come true. But if we think rationally, we know this isn't true.

So strategy: lets try accepting these weird sensations and weird thoughts, and try the best we can to carry on living our normal lives and without giving it too much power. And screw it if I'm gonna be meant to walk this earth alone and live out of a shopping cart, well then I guess I'll pick the cart that doesn't have that sticky ass wheel.
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nervousuk 3,358 posts
nervousuk
When left with generalized anxiety and still sensitized, we can still feel terrible. When we talk on hear of 'asking it to do it's worst' we are generally talking about panic. It works well with that.
Dr Weekes talks of 'letting time pass' and I believe you can incorporate that into the post panic attack state..in this case panic has ceased and you are left feeling very anxious still. Patience...lots of it is needed.
Still a total acceptance of this post panic state - an understanding of the fact one can expect it to be around for a while still...a quiet acceptance.

The effects of the sensitization that is left can make us more anxious...so you are encouraging a generalized anxiety state to stick around by becoming worried about it, dwelling on it too much and becoming irritated by it.

Look to other things like lifestyle at this point too. Dropping or lowering caffeine levels. Lots of good sleep - regular time every night getting at least 6 hours sleep every night. Eat good healthy foods to make sure you are getting a good supply of the necessary nutrients. Exercise even if its just a good long way every day. Try taking a B Complex vitamin. Use something natural to help calm like chamomile tea ( do some homework!). Do a relaxation practice for at least 15 minutes every day even if its when you get into bed at night. Play detective in your life and try and determine what makes you more anxious.
 For me skipping breakfast made me worse, caffeine, too much rubbish like chocolate and sweet stuff, taking on board everyone elses problems, ....I knew there were lots of things I could eliminate at least until I felt recovered. Clean your life up.
Look to the future, have goals, plans. Work towards those. If anything causes you any amount of fear, look to facing that fear. Your mind and body have been through the mill, they need some kindly respect now.

Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood
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Mikey 93 posts
Mikey
hope I won't be harsh, it's not directed to you, but some of these views

nervousuk wrote:
When left with generalized anxiety and still sensitized, we can still feel terrible. When we talk on hear of 'asking it to do it's worst' we are generally talking about panic. It works well with that. 
 

absolutely agree.

nervousuk wrote:
 
Dr Weekes talks of 'letting time pass' and I believe you can incorporate that into the post panic attack state..in this case panic has ceased and you are left feeling very anxious still. Patience...lots of it is needed.
Still a total acceptance of this post panic state - an understanding of the fact one can expect it to be around for a while still...a quiet acceptance.
The effects of the sensitization that is left can make us more anxious...so you are encouraging a generalized anxiety state to stick around by becoming worried about it, dwelling on it too much and becoming irritated by it.
 

These are the theories where I'm becoming a LITTLE skeptic. Like, saying that 

"you are encouraging a generalized anxiety state to stick around by becoming worried about it"

I've read this numerous times, but it still makes no sense. The main thing about anxiety, that you feel anxious, nervous all the time, without KNOWING WHY, right? Worried is a synonym to nervous, right? so this sentence is

"you are encouraging a generalized anxiety state to stick around by becoming anxious"

I'm anxious because I'm anxious? sounds like a play with words.

nervousuk wrote:
 
Look to other things like lifestyle at this point too. Dropping or lowering caffeine levels. Lots of good sleep - regular time every night getting at least 6 hours sleep every night. Eat good healthy foods to make sure you are getting a good supply of the necessary nutrients. Exercise even if its just a good long way every day. Try taking a B Complex vitamin. Use something natural to help calm like chamomile tea ( do some homework!). Do a relaxation practice for at least 15 minutes every day even if its when you get into bed at night. Play detective in your life and try and determine what makes you more anxious.
 For me skipping breakfast made me worse, caffeine, too much rubbish like chocolate and sweet stuff, taking on board everyone elses problems, ....I knew there were lots of things I could eliminate at least until I felt recovered. Clean your life up.
Look to the future, have goals, plans. Work towards those. If anything causes you any amount of fear, look to facing that fear. Your mind and body have been through the mill, they need some kindly respect now.

great advices. thank you for replying.
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Mikey 93 posts
Mikey
Also, like I said, I think the fear-of-fear theory, and the face-the-fear method are both very useful stuff, but don't explain one thing : WHY DID IT HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE?

I didn't wake up one day, like "ooh, what would happen if I became depersonalized, or panicky?". So, the fear of anxiety could not make it happen, since I didn't know what anxiety is, only when it happened to me.
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Rhombus 251 posts
Rhombus
This is the problem with over-conceptualizing the beast. You don't need to understand the labels of emotions and symptoms to experience and react to them. You can still be afraid of anxiety without having a good concept of what it is -- actually, I would postulate this actually makes it more likely.

We fear the unknown....
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nervousuk 3,358 posts
nervousuk
I think maybe you are misunderstanding some things Mikey.
Firstly there is no point in continuing to dwell on the why it started if that something is not obvious. If its something that is still an ongoing situation then one has to address that of course or you will be kicking your own broken leg so as to speak! The why generally speaking often doesn't matter because the task at hand is to address whats going on not worry about the whys.
Fear of fear I think you misunderstand. This is used on here in the context of first fear, second fear. Have you read a Dr Weekes book? First fear, from what I understand is a fear or apprehensive state when you fear something might happen. Second fear is when you feel the effects of that first fear and react by adding a ton more. ( Hope I described that ok) You begin to fear being fearful!

This is how it is:
You maybe have panic disorder or generalised anxiety disorder.
Panic disorder is very obvious and once panics have disappeared you can still be left with a chronic anxious state for a while until your nervous system heals BUT if you continue to worry about the generalised state then you are very obviously exacerbating that state. Worry piles on worry , stress on stress, it all helps to keep the whole cycle going. You wont be able to magic yourself into a completely calm person once panic attacks disappear but there are things you can do to address the state you are left in. If you continue to be irritated, continue to question and dwell upon HOW YOU FEEL you will be prone to stay in  in the same place recovery wise.
Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood
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Kelly 1,229 posts
Kelly
Very well said.
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Mikey 93 posts
Mikey
thanks for the responses.
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Nateamus 35 posts
Nateamus

Sue, you are doing beautiful things here.  God's work!

 

The fear of panic is gone because you don't fear it.  The fear of anxiety isn't gone because you still fear it.  Don't believe me?  How many Google searches did you do today on anxiety related topics?  How many did you do about panic specifically?  My guess is if you searched for panic at all it is to get informaiton on why you feel the way you do right now, not because you are looking to solve the panic question.  THIS is why we stay in this state for so long.  It is SOOOO common! 

 

When people attribute panic to specific things, then remove those things from their lives the panic NEVER returns. e.g someone smokes weed and has a panic attack, he never touches weed again and never panics again.  It's a very linear problem with an obvious solution.  It's when the panic comes out of the blue for a less-than-obvious reason that people can get stuck in the loop more easily.  Panic can still nail the dude who only smoked weed once, but he believes that it was caused by the weed and since he isn't touching it anymore he can't have them.  It's so simple that we tend complicate it..."it just CAN'T be that easy!"

 

Remember:  Your body is always trying to reach it's center.  You have a bouyant life jacket on and are at the bottom of a lake, clawing and grabbing at ideas, thoughts, emotions, GOOGLE SEARCHES!!...ANTYTHING to save you from your anxious thoughts.  How about you JUST....LET....GO....  Sure it will take some time to get to the surface, but you'll get there with no further input from yourself.  You're on your way already. 

 

All my best! 
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Mikey 93 posts
Mikey
Nateamus wrote:

Sue, you are doing beautiful things here.  God's work!

 

The fear of panic is gone because you don't fear it.  The fear of anxiety isn't gone because you still fear it.  Don't believe me?  How many Google searches did you do today on anxiety related topics?  How many did you do about panic specifically?  My guess is if you searched for panic at all it is to get informaiton on why you feel the way you do right now, not because you are looking to solve the panic question.  THIS is why we stay in this state for so long.  It is SOOOO common! 

 


haha, to be honest, about in every half hour I visit some site about DP/anxiety.


Nateamus wrote:


When people attribute panic to specific things, then remove those things from their lives the panic NEVER returns. e.g someone smokes weed and has a panic attack, he never touches weed again and never panics again.  It's a very linear problem with an obvious solution.  It's when the panic comes out of the blue for a less-than-obvious reason that people can get stuck in the loop more easily.  Panic can still nail the dude who only smoked weed once, but he believes that it was caused by the weed and since he isn't touching it anymore he can't have them.  It's so simple that we tend complicate it..."it just CAN'T be that easy!"

 

Remember:  Your body is always trying to reach it's center.  You have a bouyant life jacket on and are at the bottom of a lake, clawing and grabbing at ideas, thoughts, emotions, GOOGLE SEARCHES!!...ANTYTHING to save you from your anxious thoughts.  How about you JUST....LET....GO....  Sure it will take some time to get to the surface, but you'll get there with no further input from yourself.  You're on your way already. 

 

All my best! 



it just can't be that easy haha

thanks for the good wishes and the great advice. it's really like I'm an addict
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Rahnos 687 posts
Rahnos
Mikey, your big worry is why did it happen in the first place? First of all i don't think it really matters why it happened in the first place. You understand what happens when you have a panic attack right? You've read and understood the correlation between anxiety and what psychologists call the 'Fight or Flight Response'?

Why did it happen in the first place? Well that question is for you to answer. But believe me, there are more interesting things to do in life, than spend too much time looking back.

If i were to ask myself the same question the abbreviated answer would be:

 When i was a child i was always nervous, my mother was herself oversensitive and i picked up on it. As i got older i was a shy person, and used to wake up in the middle of the night feeling like i couldn't breathe. 
Then when i was 15 i made myself sick drinking Rum over the weekend. Monday morning at school i still felt ill, and when the school assembled together in the Gym like every monday, i thought i was going to vomit in front of the whole school, panicked, and ran out of there. Bingo, my first full blown situational anxiety attack. All attacks after that, stemmed from that one incident.
I was in a department store, riding the escalator and i tripped. I fell down the stairs for an hour and a half.
~ Demetri Martin
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