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PPPD: Official Thread - Dizziness, off balance, cloudy head, "drunk" feeling, motion sensations... PanicEnd Message Board
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552 posts LuckyLife 552 posts
LuckyLife
Hey all, 

I've seen this pop up a few times around here and elsewhere. There's a great thread on PPPD over at TMS Wiki, for those aware of that site. 

I thought I'd share a bit of info in this thread for those experiencing longer term dizziness or balance issues who suspect it may be in the "anxiety" family. (You're correct.)
Of course, see your doctor before diagnosing anything... but arming ourselves with all of the info is always helpful. 

Will post some details below...
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LuckyLife 552 posts
LuckyLife
Dizziness and off balance feelings are extremely common in stress disorder. (Anxiety, depression, GAD, etc.) For most of us, the feelings are somewhat vague, but often very strong and can be very persistent. I'm posting a few links so those who may be experiencing this "branch" of the stress tree can understand that it's not dangerous, and rather... it's very very common.
It can be difficult, but yet... we can lead full lives... even feeling a bit off balance, wonky, drunk, etc.  If others respond/reply... we'll see patterns of what helps people and IMO, it almost always comes down to the same things it usually does. Stress reduction, acceptance, moving on with life, etc. Some deeper things have been explored as well... meditation, guided imagery, etc. 

My version of this started quite a while ago, as I was deep into recovery and doing pretty well. (Im still doing pretty well)  But, I did a heavy weightlifting workout and noticed it start. I had the sensation briefly in the past so didn't think much of it. But, this time it wanted to stick around... and it did. It got worse... and very challenging... before it did get better. It's still around and still working through it, but life is fine... even if a bit wobbly at times. 😉 

"Medical" explantion below... 
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LuckyLife 552 posts
LuckyLife
There is actually a great deal of info on the condition out there, even on Youtube... and you'll find it's extremely common even in some who don't consider themselves to have a stress disorder or "anxiety."  (Truth is, they probbaly have some version of disorder level stress reaction.) 

https://pn.bmj.com/content/18/1/5

Persistent postural-perceptual dizziness (PPPD) is a chronic functional disorder of the nervous system, characterised by non-spinning vertigo and perceived unsteadiness (see box 1 for diagnostic criteria1)

That's about all you need to know... all in one sentence. It's a difficult, tricky condition and can really feel confusing... but the above sentence says it all. 

Functional Disorder: You're not "broken" and there is no physical reason evident for this. (See: IBS, Anxiety, etc.) 
Nervous System:  The same system that gave you all of the other symptoms 
Perceived: There is no "ear condition" or broken mechanism... rather, this is the brain miscommunicating with eyes and balance system... likely due to extended taxation from stress. (That last part is my guess, but most seem to agree) 

Be aware: Everyone and their brother will try to tell you this is an "ear condition" or an infection.  In a few cases it may be... but you usually have MANY other smyptoms that tell you it is long before this. PPPD is characterized partially by the vagueness of it all.... it's a feeling... but you can't always put your finger right on it. You won't have any hearing issues, etc. It's just a state. 
So, be mindful of the difference between PPPD... and ACTUAL medical conditions with the ear, which are usually easy to spot... and are not the same thing. 
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LuckyLife 552 posts
LuckyLife

The following thread is a treasure trove of information about the condition:
http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/psycho-physiological-dizziness-syndrome-ppds.4599/
Everything you need to know about it is there. 

Symptoms...


    • Periods of unsteadiness or a feeling of the ground being unstable. I personally describe this as a sensation of the floor moving below you or as walking on a waterbed.

    • A feeling of rocking or swaying, or feeling like you are veering to the side when walking.

    • A feeling of ‘fullness’, ‘cloudiness’, ‘fogginess’, or ‘heaviness’ of the head.

    • Dizziness in response to particular movements, such as turning head from side to side, getting up from a chair, looking up, bending over, lying down etc..

    • Tinnitus (ringing, buzzing or hissing sound on one or both ears)

    • Visual disturbances (sensitivity to bright light or to motion stimuli; episodically out of focus)

    • Numbness, tingling or ‘electrical’ sensations in hands, feet, face or scalp (often one-sided)

    • Momentary dizziness or internal ‘shift’ sensations that last for a couple of seconds.

    • Nausea

    • Headaches

    • Feeling hot or flushed

    • Wobbly legs

    • Tightness or clenching of the jaw.

    • Heart palpitations or missed heart beats

    • Body or situations may at times feel different or unreal

  • Frequent fatigue
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Shen 93 posts
Shen
Looks to me like very soft dizziness produced by excess of stress.

I Can see why people can get bothered by it and get sensible to motion Thanks to anxiety. Kind of the same as DP/DR

Never had it or never noticed it tho
You Can Do This~
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weekend_warrior 40 posts
weekend_warrior
Going to look into this. When I first start having PAs dizziness was such a big symptom for me, but as they started to subside so did the dizziness. However for the past 5-6 years I’ll randomly have spats of dizziness and it’s usually while I’m at work sitting in my chair in front of the computer. Out of nowhere I’ll keep like I’m dizzy and it’s hard for to me to make any sudden movements. Really hard to explain but a huge pain in the....
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Bearspectacle 79 posts
Bearspectacle
Ugh, it comes and goes. The rocking on a boat feeling came back after a panic attack yesterday. Such a nice combo, panicky and dizzy, off balance. A huge pain indeed.
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LuckyLife 552 posts
LuckyLife
Shen,

Agree it’s stress based. Of course some will call it “anxiety” or TMS ... but it’s all in the same family. The interesting part is that he medical community is now recognizing that it’s a condition... yet not a medical condition. It’s “functional” which is their way of saying psychological or non-structural.

It’s tricky and can be a drag... but it’s common.
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Artmuzz 174 posts
Artmuzz
I get all those symptoms of PPPD and it was bad after experiencing my first full blown panic attack in 2015. I still get those symptoms from time to time but I’ve learnt to just accept them and float and let time pass. I sometimes think that those symptoms are symptoms of migraine as I am a migraine sufferer and sometimes get the migraine aura and ocular migraines which are brought on by stress and I know I have TMS.
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Shen 93 posts
Shen
LuckyLife wrote:
Shen,

Agree it’s stress based. Of course some will call it “anxiety” or TMS ... but it’s all in the same family. The interesting part is that he medical community is now recognizing that it’s a condition... yet not a medical condition. It’s “functional” which is their way of saying psychological or non-structural.

It’s tricky and can be a drag... but it’s common.


I had something similar, a Subjective dizziness, It all started when I was feeling a little wobbly one day, Adrenaline kick in, Rapid thoughts about it which made me very aware of this wobbly feeling, and thanks to that worrying, the symptoms worsened, with headaches, Dizziness, and even DR in the worst case. I believe this happens because stress can be directed to the focus of your worry. 

I could feel actually stress itself going to my temples in my head,and feel my nerves on the inner ear being shaken by stress. Anxiety in that sense can create very real physical symptoms, because stress can stimulate your nerves, make them extremely sensible and that can create real weird feelings like DP/DR or this symptom, Enough bad habits of anxious analysis and you should start to see all the room spinning.

Well, If this is PPPD, and You have this, the way to recovery it's the same. Acceptance, Stop the analysis, Repeat. Befriend the sensation, Don´t let it control you, live your life with this, Stop caring. Be confortable, and if the thought arises, catch it and accept immediately before you start to analyse it. With time, You will start to form a habit of don't really caring if is there or not. and when you stop caring. The symptom will disappear.

Everyone had at least a symptom that really made their life miserable before knowing how to treat anxiety, mine was DP/DR. and others maybe had this symptom.
Always know that this is anxiety, its temporal and you already know what to do. this applies to all of the anxiety symptoms.
You Can Do This~
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Bearspectacle 79 posts
Bearspectacle
This symptom is a real life changer at the moment. It makes me not want to participate in activities. I never had it before this year, i guess as i age my body can't take all the stress anymore. It's so persistent and intense at times that it's hard to belive that it's the work of anxiety. 
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Iwanttobreakfree 5 posts
Iwanttobreakfree
oh this is the Real deal for me it is staring to become unbearable . the drunk feeling and stumbling is so disorienting. I'm here to hear any suggestions you guys have. when I'm actually drunk I'm perfect but becoming and alcoholic really isn't an option unfortunately 😂 .
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LuckyLife 552 posts
LuckyLife
Hi Breakfree,

The best suggestion I have for you is to do your best to give it time... and to get on with daily activities as if you are ok. I’ve never heard of a single person being hurt by pppd. It’s a stress based condition and best I can tell... reduction of stress (which includes worry) sets the body free to be able to reorganize the communications between brain, eyes and limbs.

Is the feeling constant for you? It is for many. I would compare it to another form of depersonalization. A main difference being... people who don’t have or don’t know they have a stress disorder can have pppd.

Did you read the tms wiki thread?

Take it slowly. Reduce worry. Rest the mind and body. Give the system a chance to reset. Live as is we are ok. Enjoy life. These are the goals... not just to “get rid of” this symptom set.

Check in as you progress.
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Shen 93 posts
Shen
Yeah luckylife, Specially the phrase "Live life as if you are ok", cannot be more true. In fact, when you carry on with life, despite the fear of Any anxious symptom, you give to your brain the biggest proof that there is nothing wrong.

When I had DP/DR, I struggle so much because I feared that I couldn`t socialize or do anything with that weird symptom, that First I needed to get rid off this symptom  If I wanted to return to my life. turns out that the day I said, "f*ck it, I`ll go to see my friends, I'll go to see my family,ex,etc..) it's when in fact the symptom finally started to disappear, Because I really accepted that I would be ok with this symptom,Turns out that, regardless of your symptoms, you can be the same old you regardless of DP/DR, Life was the same, It was just subjective, at the end, again, anxiety was a lie, My life didn't change at all, I didn't change at all, Being apprehensive and trying to run out of this sensations was the fuel, I didn't realize at that time because of my enormous fear of facing life with those symptoms, but one of the most meaningful ways you can tell your brain that you truly are accepting your symptoms, it's by doing everyday life with them regardless of how you feel. Accepting the symptoms as part of your life, it's indeed the quickest cure to this. and also, its the quickest way of gaining confidence that you can live with it for the moment.
You Can Do This~
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Iwanttobreakfree 5 posts
Iwanttobreakfree
thanks so much that is great advice yeah the lightheadness is almost constant . but he are right I'm starting to say yes to doing and going places more albeit uncomfortable I need to not let it stop me any more .
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